Comments on: The History of Sino-Japanese Relations as seen in Japan’s Most Popular Travel Guide http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/ The China History Group Blog Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:40:25 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: WANGHONGNAN http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-20370 WANGHONGNAN Wed, 17 Jan 2007 05:28:42 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-20370 no chinese here? it's so long an article i'm a chinese young people,in my opinion,it's so difficult to change my point that you can't make friends with japanese guys, yes, i do admit that japan is very powerful in their economy and has so many good things we should study in honor,but most of the chinese youngpioneers have no trust in them ,especialy their politicians .For example ,the jackal is very smart and strong ,but you wouldn't like to make friends a jackal if you are an antelope,or fox who don't love and protect the human beings ,can not be accept by human beings, we chinese has so large numbers of people, and therefore many of them has not good activties such as bad lifestyles should be rectification slowly and forgiven, but never look down upon the friendly and kindly and warm-heartly people ,they are the lion,who like sleep so much and still not wake up,they are the friend of world ,chinese won't beat you if you make friends with them ,and so am i. Do you want to know me so to know the chinese partly? pls contact me by writing your words on my website, i'm so glad to wait your response ,byebye no chinese here?
it’s so long an article
i’m a chinese young people,in my opinion,it’s so difficult to change my point that you can’t make friends with japanese guys,
yes, i do admit that japan is very powerful in their economy and has so many good things we should study in honor,but most of the chinese youngpioneers have no trust in them ,especialy their politicians .For example ,the jackal is very smart and strong ,but you wouldn’t like to make friends a jackal if you are an antelope,or fox
who don’t love and protect the human beings ,can not be accept by human beings,
we chinese has so large numbers of people, and therefore many of them has not good activties such as bad lifestyles should be rectification slowly and forgiven,
but never look down upon the friendly and kindly and warm-heartly people ,they are the lion,who like sleep so much and still not wake up,they are the friend of world ,chinese won’t beat you if you make friends with them ,and so am i.
Do you want to know me so to know the chinese partly?
pls contact me by writing your words on my website, i’m so glad to wait your response ,byebye

]]> By: Eisuke http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-14164 Eisuke Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:09:12 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-14164 Li: I agree　it's getting worse and worse,but I am not saying by what you mean. Li:
I agree　it’s getting worse and worse,but I am not saying by what you mean.

]]> By: Li http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-14140 Li Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:53:31 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-14140 A small but potent demostration of what the Japanese people have been fed with regard to the past histoy. But this is nothing new, it's just getting worse. A small but potent demostration of what the Japanese people have been fed with regard to the past histoy. But this is nothing new, it’s just getting worse.

]]> By: Ben Seeberger http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-13255 Ben Seeberger Mon, 04 Dec 2006 10:22:47 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-13255 I'm not sure it should be the guidebooks responsibility to suddenly do what Japanese politicians have been afraid to do for so many years. Though it does make sense that they should not report inaccurate information (such as "generally claimed/generally accepted opinion," when it is fully noted that it was not just claimed), they are in the end, a guidebook, without the full responsibility of carrying Japan on their shoulders. In that I agree with Eisuke, but I do think you have a point that they should not tell of an inaccurate vision of what reality is. Of course, you don't expect an American guidebook to talk about the butchering of the First Nation peoples, or a French guidebook to roll around (no pun intended) in the details of the guillotine. I’m not sure it should be the guidebooks responsibility to suddenly do what Japanese politicians have been afraid to do for so many years. Though it does make sense that they should not report inaccurate information (such as “generally claimed/generally accepted opinion,” when it is fully noted that it was not just claimed), they are in the end, a guidebook, without the full responsibility of carrying Japan on their shoulders. In that I agree with Eisuke, but I do think you have a point that they should not tell of an inaccurate vision of what reality is. Of course, you don’t expect an American guidebook to talk about the butchering of the First Nation peoples, or a French guidebook to roll around (no pun intended) in the details of the guillotine.

]]> By: Nathan Less http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-11314 Nathan Less Sat, 18 Nov 2006 07:03:05 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-11314 Perhaps the point is not so much that the travel guide has become an increasingly popular source from which the public weans tidbits of their nation's history, but that this very recent publication, as illegitimate a form of historical reportage as it may be, nonetheless signifies that Japan's skewed perspective of their past relations with China has not changed even to this day. That is to say, documentation about this particular part of their history remains glossed over, partial, and shady. It would be hard to argue against the fact that deliberation went into qualifying these references. But why should there be such deliberation in something as simple and mundane as a travel guide? Why not directly state that the Japanese invasion of Nanjing involved the mass killing of its inhabitants? Are the pile of bones on display "generally claimed" to be evidence of the massacre? It pervades me with a deep sadness to see defense of such clearly obscure statements about a very definite past. May we finally one day live in a world without nations, as a unified but diverse human race divided only by oceans. Perhaps the point is not so much that the travel guide has become an increasingly popular source from which the public weans tidbits of their nation’s history, but that this very recent publication, as illegitimate a form of historical reportage as it may be, nonetheless signifies that Japan’s skewed perspective of their past relations with China has not changed even to this day. That is to say, documentation about this particular part of their history remains glossed over, partial, and shady. It would be hard to argue against the fact that deliberation went into qualifying these references. But why should there be such deliberation in something as simple and mundane as a travel guide? Why not directly state that the Japanese invasion of Nanjing involved the mass killing of its inhabitants? Are the pile of bones on display “generally claimed” to be evidence of the massacre? It pervades me with a deep sadness to see defense of such clearly obscure statements about a very definite past. May we finally one day live in a world without nations, as a unified but diverse human race divided only by oceans.

]]> By: kotaji 거타지 :: Asian History Carnival #9 :: November :: 2006 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-10528 kotaji 거타지 :: Asian History Carnival #9 :: November :: 2006 Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:45:48 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-10528 [...] Meanwhile, Konrad Lawson looks at Chinese history through the lens of a recent Japanese travel guide. I’ve often wondered just how distorted my view of the history of certain countries has become due to Lonely Planet travel guides being my sole source of information. [...] [...] Meanwhile, Konrad Lawson looks at Chinese history through the lens of a recent Japanese travel guide. I’ve often wondered just how distorted my view of the history of certain countries has become due to Lonely Planet travel guides being my sole source of information. [...]

]]> By: Eisuke http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-9811 Eisuke Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:07:58 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-9811 Lawsonさん。 日本語で失礼します。 １）に関してですが、「地球の歩き方」は、英語圏の方が海外旅行のガイドブックと考えるLonly Planetとは 質も格段に違うガイドブックですし、情報の多くは観光名所、安宿、おいしいレストラン、 買い物と安全情報に限定されているといっても過言ではありません。 rediculously bad book なのだから、rediculously bad historical coverage なのは当然ではないでしょうか。 日本の高校生の修学旅行には広島や沖縄のみならず、中国、韓国へ足を伸ばす学校が無数にあり、ほとんどが、日本による 残虐行為の現場に足を運んだり、宿で討論会などを開いています。 また個人でそうした史跡に足を運ぶ人もおり、「観光コースにはない○○」という名のガイドブックも存在します。 （シリーズ化されているので、一定の需要があると判断していいとおもいます。） ２）何年かまえにイアン・ブルマのwages of guiltを読んでいたとき、印象に残った一節がありました。 ブルマが娘と東京ディズニーランドを訪れ、It's a small worldのアトラクションを見たときのことですが、 世界中の子供の人形が民族服をきているのに、日本と古来からのつながりのある韓国の人形がなかった。 それを日本人の歴史・世界観の深刻な欠落を象徴しているというニュアンスで描写していたのです。 ディズニーランドのアトラクションはご承知のようにアメリカのウォルト・ディズニー社のデザイナーが 作るものなので、スモールワールドの世界観は日本人ではなく、アメリカ人のもので、韓国人の 不在はそこに起因しているのだから、日本人を責められてもなあ、という思いがありました。 と同時に今、日本人は、テーマパークの１アトラクションからすら歴史認識を批判する材料を見つけられてしまう 時代に生きているのだな、とも感じたのです。 ネットがこれほど発達した今は、旅行ガイドブックの内容も文部省に検閲させたほうがいいかもしれませんね。 Lawsonさん。
日本語で失礼します。
１）に関してですが、「地球の歩き方」は、英語圏の方が海外旅行のガイドブックと考えるLonly Planetとは
質も格段に違うガイドブックですし、情報の多くは観光名所、安宿、おいしいレストラン、
買い物と安全情報に限定されているといっても過言ではありません。
rediculously bad book なのだから、rediculously bad historical coverage なのは当然ではないでしょうか。
日本の高校生の修学旅行には広島や沖縄のみならず、中国、韓国へ足を伸ばす学校が無数にあり、ほとんどが、日本による
残虐行為の現場に足を運んだり、宿で討論会などを開いています。
また個人でそうした史跡に足を運ぶ人もおり、「観光コースにはない○○」という名のガイドブックも存在します。
（シリーズ化されているので、一定の需要があると判断していいとおもいます。）
２）何年かまえにイアン・ブルマのwages of guiltを読んでいたとき、印象に残った一節がありました。
ブルマが娘と東京ディズニーランドを訪れ、It’s a small worldのアトラクションを見たときのことですが、
世界中の子供の人形が民族服をきているのに、日本と古来からのつながりのある韓国の人形がなかった。
それを日本人の歴史・世界観の深刻な欠落を象徴しているというニュアンスで描写していたのです。
ディズニーランドのアトラクションはご承知のようにアメリカのウォルト・ディズニー社のデザイナーが
作るものなので、スモールワールドの世界観は日本人ではなく、アメリカ人のもので、韓国人の
不在はそこに起因しているのだから、日本人を責められてもなあ、という思いがありました。
と同時に今、日本人は、テーマパークの１アトラクションからすら歴史認識を批判する材料を見つけられてしまう
時代に生きているのだな、とも感じたのです。
ネットがこれほど発達した今は、旅行ガイドブックの内容も文部省に検閲させたほうがいいかもしれませんね。

]]> By: K. M. Lawson http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/comment-page-1/#comment-9784 K. M. Lawson Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:37:52 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/china/2006/10/the-history-of-sino-japanese-relations-as-seen-in-japans-most-popular-travel-guide/#comment-9784 Eisuke's comment is to the effect that: " Isn't the Globetrotter series, in the end, nothing more than a guidebook? If anything, I was surprised that there was so much description fo the war. It seems that everyone [here] is more interested in completely irrelevant details [lit. the corner of Japanese tiered laquer boxes] than in the historical views of Japanese people." Eisuke, I am afraid I have to disagree. 1) First of all, nowhere in this piece did I make the claim that what is written in the guideboook expresses the historical views of the Japanese people. I am talking about the history of China and its relations with Japan in the most popular guidebook in Japan, which thousands of Japanese have and read. 2) I have claimed, and you are welcome to contest this, that outside of the compulsary education system, people at large get much of their historical knowledge from a number of more unorthodox sources such as movies, TV, and—travel guidebooks. Not everyone who travels to a country reads widely in that country's history before they go and when they get there, they often turn—as millions of us have, to our guidebook for the quick and dirty summary of the history of the country, or the importance of certain places. You are free to contest that point, but I think it borders on the obvious. As such, I think that considering the kind of ridiculously bad historical coverage in a book as popular as 地球の歩き方 is well worth a blog entry. Eisuke’s comment is to the effect that: ” Isn’t the Globetrotter series, in the end, nothing more than a guidebook? If anything, I was surprised that there was so much description fo the war. It seems that everyone [here] is more interested in completely irrelevant details [lit. the corner of Japanese tiered laquer boxes] than in the historical views of Japanese people.”

Eisuke, I am afraid I have to disagree.

1) First of all, nowhere in this piece did I make the claim that what is written in the guideboook expresses the historical views of the Japanese people. I am talking about the history of China and its relations with Japan in the most popular guidebook in Japan, which thousands of Japanese have and read.

2) I have claimed, and you are welcome to contest this, that outside of the compulsary education system, people at large get much of their historical knowledge from a number of more unorthodox sources such as movies, TV, and—travel guidebooks. Not everyone who travels to a country reads widely in that country’s history before they go and when they get there, they often turn—as millions of us have, to our guidebook for the quick and dirty summary of the history of the country, or the importance of certain places. You are free to contest that point, but I think it borders on the obvious. As such, I think that considering the kind of ridiculously bad historical coverage in a book as popular as 地球の歩き方 is well worth a blog entry.

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