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	<title>Comments on: Return to Dragon Mountain</title>
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	<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/</link>
	<description>The China History Group Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Rhyme Mountain &#171; Things Chinese</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/comment-page-1/#comment-74815</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhyme Mountain &#171; Things Chinese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/#comment-74815</guid>
		<description>[...] Return to Dragon Mountain [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Return to Dragon Mountain [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Transpacifica &#187; Spence&#8217;s New Book: Scholarly or Not, a Borgesian Passage</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/comment-page-1/#comment-74508</link>
		<dc:creator>Transpacifica &#187; Spence&#8217;s New Book: Scholarly or Not, a Borgesian Passage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 08:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/#comment-74508</guid>
		<description>[...] I have not read the book (nor have I seen it yet in Beijing), but the folks at Frog in a Well have critiqued the New Republic review and it&#8217;s an interesting meta-discussion. Most interesting to me is a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have not read the book (nor have I seen it yet in Beijing), but the folks at Frog in a Well have critiqued the New Republic review and it&#8217;s an interesting meta-discussion. Most interesting to me is a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frog in a Well - The China History Group Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/comment-page-1/#comment-74453</link>
		<dc:creator>Frog in a Well - The China History Group Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 02:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/#comment-74453</guid>
		<description>[...] A few days ago Jonathan and I were discussing Steven Owen&#8217;s review of Jonathan Spence&#8217;s new book. Jonathan was not that impressed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A few days ago Jonathan and I were discussing Steven Owen&#8217;s review of Jonathan Spence&#8217;s new book. Jonathan was not that impressed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Baumler</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/comment-page-1/#comment-72602</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Baumler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/#comment-72602</guid>
		<description>Sam, 

  Ugh. That review was even worse. Or maybe it was a perfect review and the book is not very good (my birthday is coming, so I hope to make a more full report soon.) I realize of course that NYT is not the Journal of Asian Studies, and there are audiences to write for besides China scholars, and I am fine with that. Still, when a reviewer compares a historian to Italo Calvino (who wrote fiction) there is something wrong with either the historian or the reviewer. This particularly bothers me in Chinese history where there is such a long tradition of orientalist fantasies that scholars should not be adding to. I suppose once I get a copy of the Spence book I can sit down with it and with Brooks&#039; Confusions of Pleasure and write a joint review, but for now I am sort of expecting to not like the Spence book.

Actually, I guess these reviews are doing their jobs. They are supposed to be telling me if I want to buy the book, and if I will enjoy reading it and they are doing that pretty well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, </p>
<p>  Ugh. That review was even worse. Or maybe it was a perfect review and the book is not very good (my birthday is coming, so I hope to make a more full report soon.) I realize of course that NYT is not the Journal of Asian Studies, and there are audiences to write for besides China scholars, and I am fine with that. Still, when a reviewer compares a historian to Italo Calvino (who wrote fiction) there is something wrong with either the historian or the reviewer. This particularly bothers me in Chinese history where there is such a long tradition of orientalist fantasies that scholars should not be adding to. I suppose once I get a copy of the Spence book I can sit down with it and with Brooks&#8217; Confusions of Pleasure and write a joint review, but for now I am sort of expecting to not like the Spence book.</p>
<p>Actually, I guess these reviews are doing their jobs. They are supposed to be telling me if I want to buy the book, and if I will enjoy reading it and they are doing that pretty well.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/comment-page-1/#comment-72524</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 00:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/#comment-72524</guid>
		<description>The English Professor who reviewed it for the NYT liked it:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06EFD71139F934A35753C1A9619C8B63&amp;n=Top/Features/Books/Book%20Reviews</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The English Professor who reviewed it for the NYT liked it:<br />
<a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06EFD71139F934A35753C1A9619C8B63&#038;n=Top/Features/Books/Book%20Reviews" rel="nofollow">http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06EFD71139F934A35753C1A9619C8B63&#038;n=Top/Features/Books/Book%20Reviews</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Dresner</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/comment-page-1/#comment-72505</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Dresner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/2007/10/return-to-dragon-mountian/#comment-72505</guid>
		<description>(Full disclosure: I&#039;ve heard Owen speak on poetry, as part of the Harvard Sophomore tutorial in Asian Studies, and used some of his translations, but never worked with him in any fashion)

Owen&#039;s understanding of historiography is ... odd. I&#039;m going to have to go back and reread it and think about it, but it seems like he&#039;s got a mental image of a dichotomy between a humanistic tradition -- Confucian and old-fashioned Western history -- in which autonomy and agency are paramount and a deterministic tradition -- Marxian, though he doesn&#039;t say so, and the social science trend in general -- in which individual agency is irrelevant to the workings of great trends and processes. His use of a literary trope -- the simplistic plotting of social science, versus the engaging and complex performances of Confucian humanism -- is interesting, but betrays his failure to understand or engage with historical theory, social science or social history. 

There&#039;s a real problem in this review, too: I have a hard time figuring out, at least on first reading, what&#039;s in the book and what&#039;s Owen presenting context (or contrast; that&#039;s unclear, too). It&#039;s a weak review, in the sense that a review is supposed to tell you (at least this is what I tell my students!) whether and why a book is worth reading. Aside from the fact that Spence hasn&#039;t deviated from known fact and writes well, I can&#039;t make heads or tails of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Full disclosure: I&#8217;ve heard Owen speak on poetry, as part of the Harvard Sophomore tutorial in Asian Studies, and used some of his translations, but never worked with him in any fashion)</p>
<p>Owen&#8217;s understanding of historiography is &#8230; odd. I&#8217;m going to have to go back and reread it and think about it, but it seems like he&#8217;s got a mental image of a dichotomy between a humanistic tradition &#8212; Confucian and old-fashioned Western history &#8212; in which autonomy and agency are paramount and a deterministic tradition &#8212; Marxian, though he doesn&#8217;t say so, and the social science trend in general &#8212; in which individual agency is irrelevant to the workings of great trends and processes. His use of a literary trope &#8212; the simplistic plotting of social science, versus the engaging and complex performances of Confucian humanism &#8212; is interesting, but betrays his failure to understand or engage with historical theory, social science or social history. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a real problem in this review, too: I have a hard time figuring out, at least on first reading, what&#8217;s in the book and what&#8217;s Owen presenting context (or contrast; that&#8217;s unclear, too). It&#8217;s a weak review, in the sense that a review is supposed to tell you (at least this is what I tell my students!) whether and why a book is worth reading. Aside from the fact that Spence hasn&#8217;t deviated from known fact and writes well, I can&#8217;t make heads or tails of this.</p>
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