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	<title>Comments on: Lies, Damn Lies, and Chinese “Lies That Bind”</title>
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	<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/</link>
	<description>The China History Group Blog</description>
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		<title>By: LordD</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-169598</link>
		<dc:creator>LordD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 00:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-169598</guid>
		<description>Having lived and interacted with the Chinese for more than 10 years. I would have to say that Chinese live on a dangerous slope. Primarily they do use far more white lies, use far more deception and well outright lies to Non-Han. To tie in the blood pact is a requirement. The Han a fiercely proud racially and to have a subjective viewpoint of the &quot;truth&quot; or to avoid the truth seeking process is tantamount to Groupthink (As Orwell would put it.)and is dangerous. The Han are as proud as any German who was a member of the Nazi Party. Science, Math and Harder Sciences are not possible in an environment such as this, hence the West invented the Gun. If truth telling depends on context then it&#039;s like waiting for the Sun to Rise and set, cause you never know when it will not happen. Sounds like fun, but playing dumb has it&#039;s limits. When you&#039;ve been lied too so much how can you detect the truth? The truth becomes impossible and the search for truth or at least evidence becomes to time consuming and laziness takes over. It&#039;s easier to use lies in China. As well a nation of liars is easy to control. Once again you cannot know the truth if you are always getting spun. Finally propaganda is more effective on a nation of liars, because there is only one consistent source of information however slanted to believe in. That is why the communists are atheists. Man becomes God when he can manipulate others to his own bidding. Man worship is practiced in China, and like in Nazi Germany, Mao&#039;s own undertakings, and Pol Pot the uberman rises. Nietzsche would be very proud of China. In America and most of the west we have disdain for Man worship because we believe all Men are created evilly, so we counter with laws rules, God, and principles which are generally consistent regardless of context. In the East men are seen as good and a force for good becomes rich. Good means to win at any costs, but the cheaper the better. Almost a Darwinistic Calvinism minus god, and switch Good works for God, to good works for my own children, screw everyone else. Know it, lived it, left it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having lived and interacted with the Chinese for more than 10 years. I would have to say that Chinese live on a dangerous slope. Primarily they do use far more white lies, use far more deception and well outright lies to Non-Han. To tie in the blood pact is a requirement. The Han a fiercely proud racially and to have a subjective viewpoint of the &#8220;truth&#8221; or to avoid the truth seeking process is tantamount to Groupthink (As Orwell would put it.)and is dangerous. The Han are as proud as any German who was a member of the Nazi Party. Science, Math and Harder Sciences are not possible in an environment such as this, hence the West invented the Gun. If truth telling depends on context then it&#8217;s like waiting for the Sun to Rise and set, cause you never know when it will not happen. Sounds like fun, but playing dumb has it&#8217;s limits. When you&#8217;ve been lied too so much how can you detect the truth? The truth becomes impossible and the search for truth or at least evidence becomes to time consuming and laziness takes over. It&#8217;s easier to use lies in China. As well a nation of liars is easy to control. Once again you cannot know the truth if you are always getting spun. Finally propaganda is more effective on a nation of liars, because there is only one consistent source of information however slanted to believe in. That is why the communists are atheists. Man becomes God when he can manipulate others to his own bidding. Man worship is practiced in China, and like in Nazi Germany, Mao&#8217;s own undertakings, and Pol Pot the uberman rises. Nietzsche would be very proud of China. In America and most of the west we have disdain for Man worship because we believe all Men are created evilly, so we counter with laws rules, God, and principles which are generally consistent regardless of context. In the East men are seen as good and a force for good becomes rich. Good means to win at any costs, but the cheaper the better. Almost a Darwinistic Calvinism minus god, and switch Good works for God, to good works for my own children, screw everyone else. Know it, lived it, left it!</p>
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		<title>By: Recent Links Tagged With "2005" - JabberTags</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-132527</link>
		<dc:creator>Recent Links Tagged With "2005" - JabberTags</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 00:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-132527</guid>
		<description>[...] public links &gt;&gt; 2005   Lies, Damn Lies, and Chinese “Lies That Bind” Saved by silver on Fri 31-10-2008   Today’s Angelversaries Saved by narut0247 on Sun 28-9-2008   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] public links &gt;&gt; 2005   Lies, Damn Lies, and Chinese “Lies That Bind” Saved by silver on Fri 31-10-2008   Today’s Angelversaries Saved by narut0247 on Sun 28-9-2008   [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-132130</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-132130</guid>
		<description>Very thoughtful piece of writing.Thank you.

However, I think the more damaging lies on the run up to the Olympics have concerned rights to protest, press freedom, internet access. The opening ceremony &#039;illusion&#039; doesn&#039;t really hurt anyone, although the gymnasts - through no fault of their own - must now live a lifetime lie unless one of them comes clean.

And there are far greater areas of concern than those connected with the recent Games. What of the appalling quality of reporting that passes for journalism in China? And, on a related note, the history printed in school textbooks is so selective (particularly CCP era history) that it can scarcely be regarded as having any connection with the truth.

I&#039;ve lived in China for some time and sense a greater lack of moral values here than other countries that I&#039;ve called home, and it&#039;s not good enough to pass it off as an example of cultural relativism. Unfortunately, it seems to be working for them, so I don&#039;t see things changing anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very thoughtful piece of writing.Thank you.</p>
<p>However, I think the more damaging lies on the run up to the Olympics have concerned rights to protest, press freedom, internet access. The opening ceremony &#8216;illusion&#8217; doesn&#8217;t really hurt anyone, although the gymnasts &#8211; through no fault of their own &#8211; must now live a lifetime lie unless one of them comes clean.</p>
<p>And there are far greater areas of concern than those connected with the recent Games. What of the appalling quality of reporting that passes for journalism in China? And, on a related note, the history printed in school textbooks is so selective (particularly CCP era history) that it can scarcely be regarded as having any connection with the truth.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lived in China for some time and sense a greater lack of moral values here than other countries that I&#8217;ve called home, and it&#8217;s not good enough to pass it off as an example of cultural relativism. Unfortunately, it seems to be working for them, so I don&#8217;t see things changing anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Frog in a Well - The China History Group Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-127870</link>
		<dc:creator>Frog in a Well - The China History Group Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-127870</guid>
		<description>[...] the fascination for me is how Sonnenfeld echoes the argument my piece on &#8220;Lies.&#8221; (August 28) which talks about the role of concepts such as authenticity, individualism, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the fascination for me is how Sonnenfeld echoes the argument my piece on &#8220;Lies.&#8221; (August 28) which talks about the role of concepts such as authenticity, individualism, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: C. W. Hayford</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-127687</link>
		<dc:creator>C. W. Hayford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 06:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-127687</guid>
		<description>Sam Crane&#039;s &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://uselesstree.typepad.com/useless_tree/2008/09/the-politics-of-virtue-ethics.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Politics of Virtue Ethics&lt;/a&gt;&quot; at &lt;strong&gt;Useless Tree&lt;/strong&gt; comments on the difference between &quot;virtue ethics,&quot; &quot;deontological,&quot; and &quot;consequentialism.&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam Crane&#8217;s &#8220;<a href="http://uselesstree.typepad.com/useless_tree/2008/09/the-politics-of-virtue-ethics.html" rel="nofollow">The Politics of Virtue Ethics</a>&#8221; at <strong>Useless Tree</strong> comments on the difference between &#8220;virtue ethics,&#8221; &#8220;deontological,&#8221; and &#8220;consequentialism.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy6</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-127642</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-127642</guid>
		<description>Very interesting post.

But the accusation of lying during the Games would have gone down much better if not for the hypocrisy of it. The media had jumped up and down over lip-synching in BJ while Sydney was given barely a shrug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post.</p>
<p>But the accusation of lying during the Games would have gone down much better if not for the hypocrisy of it. The media had jumped up and down over lip-synching in BJ while Sydney was given barely a shrug.</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; China: Chinese Lies</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-126207</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; China: Chinese Lies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-126207</guid>
		<description>[...] W. Hayford from Chinese History group blog goes into various literature sources for discussing the &#8220;Chinese character&#8221; in relation to &#8220;face&#8221; and &#8220;lie&#8221;. It gives some background about the various Olympic &#8220;lies&#8221; happened.    Posted by Oiwan [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] W. Hayford from Chinese History group blog goes into various literature sources for discussing the &#8220;Chinese character&#8221; in relation to &#8220;face&#8221; and &#8220;lie&#8221;. It gives some background about the various Olympic &#8220;lies&#8221; happened.    Posted by Oiwan [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/08/lies-damn-lies-and-chinese-%e2%80%9clies-that-bind%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-126194</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=573#comment-126194</guid>
		<description>Very helpful post.

We have a Taiwanese, international-school-raised, American-married friend here in Tianjin who sometimes acts as something of a cultural &#039;double agent&#039; between Chinese and foreigners.  Americans accept her as a American (her English is flawless and worldview Western), but she can do the same thing in Chinese with groups of Mainlanders.

She says that when her Chinese friends complain about their Western friends, one of their biggest annoyances is being accused of dishonesty by foreigners.  To them, such foreigners are clearly in the wrong.

I blogged about &#039;Chinese lying,&#039; though with an emphasis on personal relationships, the relationship between words and meaing, and communication styles: &lt;a href=&quot;http://chinahopelive.net/2008/03/17/to-lie-or-not-to-lie&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;To &quot;lie&quot; or not to &quot;lie&quot;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very helpful post.</p>
<p>We have a Taiwanese, international-school-raised, American-married friend here in Tianjin who sometimes acts as something of a cultural &#8216;double agent&#8217; between Chinese and foreigners.  Americans accept her as a American (her English is flawless and worldview Western), but she can do the same thing in Chinese with groups of Mainlanders.</p>
<p>She says that when her Chinese friends complain about their Western friends, one of their biggest annoyances is being accused of dishonesty by foreigners.  To them, such foreigners are clearly in the wrong.</p>
<p>I blogged about &#8216;Chinese lying,&#8217; though with an emphasis on personal relationships, the relationship between words and meaing, and communication styles: <a href="http://chinahopelive.net/2008/03/17/to-lie-or-not-to-lie" rel="nofollow">To &#8220;lie&#8221; or not to &#8220;lie&#8221;</a></p>
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