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	<title>Comments on: Confucian liberalism</title>
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	<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/</link>
	<description>The China History Group Blog</description>
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		<title>By: A Ku Indeed! &#187; Archive &#187; Blog Love</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-166666</link>
		<dc:creator>A Ku Indeed! &#187; Archive &#187; Blog Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-166666</guid>
		<description>[...] attention to some interesting conversations. For now: Alan at Frog in the Well discusses &#8220;Confucian Liberalism&#8220;, Alexus at Unpolished Jade discusses those rascally proto-Daoists in &#8220;Is Book 18 of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] attention to some interesting conversations. For now: Alan at Frog in the Well discusses &#8220;Confucian Liberalism&#8220;, Alexus at Unpolished Jade discusses those rascally proto-Daoists in &#8220;Is Book 18 of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frog in a Well - The China History Group Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146820</link>
		<dc:creator>Frog in a Well - The China History Group Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-146820</guid>
		<description>[...] that, in reference to the Yang Shiqun incident (see, for other opinions concerning this issue, this other post), that we can see real differences in the way that the Chinese are using the blogosphere to have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that, in reference to the Yang Shiqun incident (see, for other opinions concerning this issue, this other post), that we can see real differences in the way that the Chinese are using the blogosphere to have [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-137387</link>
		<dc:creator>I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-137387</guid>
		<description>@Porfiriy
The original Chinese quote is this:
犹太作家赫斯说过：中国人与犹太人是两个不幸民族的典型例子，前者只有躯体没有灵魂，后者只有灵魂没有躯体。

The name given is 赫斯, which could be either Hess, Hirst, Hirsch or anything that sound similar. Names in Chinese and western languages don&#039;t really translate, since Chinese uses ideograms and western languages are phonic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Porfiriy<br />
The original Chinese quote is this:<br />
犹太作家赫斯说过：中国人与犹太人是两个不幸民族的典型例子，前者只有躯体没有灵魂，后者只有灵魂没有躯体。</p>
<p>The name given is 赫斯, which could be either Hess, Hirst, Hirsch or anything that sound similar. Names in Chinese and western languages don&#8217;t really translate, since Chinese uses ideograms and western languages are phonic.</p>
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		<title>By: Porfiriy</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-136263</link>
		<dc:creator>Porfiriy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 06:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-136263</guid>
		<description>Do you know who said that &quot;tragic peoples&quot; quote?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know who said that &#8220;tragic peoples&#8221; quote?</p>
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		<title>By: J Chan</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-136253</link>
		<dc:creator>J Chan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-136253</guid>
		<description>I am not surprised Yang was reported.

Students throughout the world (East and West) are expected to be taught and given solutions to problems to pass exams with a good grade, and find a good job afterwards.

It takes a lot more than three or four years at a university to become an intellectual. University is easy. After all people like Shakespeare, Mao, Deng and Bill Gates didn&#039;t need university to make them intellectuals. What is an intellectual? A true intellectual is a person who understands challenges and can successfully create solutions to any problems he encounters, not some loud-mouth who makes criticisms of anything he encounters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not surprised Yang was reported.</p>
<p>Students throughout the world (East and West) are expected to be taught and given solutions to problems to pass exams with a good grade, and find a good job afterwards.</p>
<p>It takes a lot more than three or four years at a university to become an intellectual. University is easy. After all people like Shakespeare, Mao, Deng and Bill Gates didn&#8217;t need university to make them intellectuals. What is an intellectual? A true intellectual is a person who understands challenges and can successfully create solutions to any problems he encounters, not some loud-mouth who makes criticisms of anything he encounters.</p>
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		<title>By: Peony</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-136234</link>
		<dc:creator>Peony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-136234</guid>
		<description>Alan, I really agree with Chris. It all depends on how you define universalist and I suspect you will find yourself
in some trouble if you tried to really make the leap that Western Universalism (ie Plato&#039;s Meno or Christian 
teleology)is somehow equivalent with Confucian universalism (which I agree with Chris that this latter is strongly
dependent on context)

You state it but do not argue it-- so I look forward to hearing your arguments sometime...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan, I really agree with Chris. It all depends on how you define universalist and I suspect you will find yourself<br />
in some trouble if you tried to really make the leap that Western Universalism (ie Plato&#8217;s Meno or Christian<br />
teleology)is somehow equivalent with Confucian universalism (which I agree with Chris that this latter is strongly<br />
dependent on context)</p>
<p>You state it but do not argue it&#8211; so I look forward to hearing your arguments sometime&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Blog Love &#171; A Ku Indeed!</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-136182</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog Love &#171; A Ku Indeed!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-136182</guid>
		<description>[...] attention to some interesting conversations. For now: Alan at Frog in the Well discusses &#8220;Confucian Liberalism&#8220;, Alexus at Unpolished Jade discusses those rascally proto-Daoists in &#8220;Is Book 18 of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] attention to some interesting conversations. For now: Alan at Frog in the Well discusses &#8220;Confucian Liberalism&#8220;, Alexus at Unpolished Jade discusses those rascally proto-Daoists in &#8220;Is Book 18 of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.froginawell.net/china/2008/12/confucian-liberalism/comment-page-1/#comment-136181</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.froginawell.net/china/?p=970#comment-136181</guid>
		<description>Alan,

I&#039;m not so sure -- it depends on how &quot;universalist&quot; gets defined. In my own post on this, I drew a distinction between what I called being a &quot;universalist&quot; and being a &quot;particularist&quot;. In the former, values or norms can be derived and justified in ways that have nothing to do with local culture (say, a priori). In the latter, origin and justification of such norms is always a contextual affair. 

My guess here is that Bell thinks of Asian/Eastern ways of thinking on these questions as particularist, where current contexts and situations in modern life are critiqued in terms of values and norms that spring from historical and cultural narratives inherent in that local world (in this case, say, the Analects, the Mencius, etc). Thus, in this way, my friend above (Sam) seems to be a &quot;Bellian&quot; at least in some instances, given that he frequently critiques the PRC by wielding narratives from the localized ancient culture. 

But I think that Bell can be a particularist and a liberal, though I suppose it depends what we mean by &quot;liberal.&quot; Appealing the past doesn&#039;t seem to preclude change, or critique of current traditional mores or practices. In fact, my own way of reading Confucius is pretty strongly particularist, and I see a lot of liberal themes in the Analects to be drawn from and used. 

But I&#039;m not sure if this addresses what you are concerned about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so sure &#8212; it depends on how &#8220;universalist&#8221; gets defined. In my own post on this, I drew a distinction between what I called being a &#8220;universalist&#8221; and being a &#8220;particularist&#8221;. In the former, values or norms can be derived and justified in ways that have nothing to do with local culture (say, a priori). In the latter, origin and justification of such norms is always a contextual affair. </p>
<p>My guess here is that Bell thinks of Asian/Eastern ways of thinking on these questions as particularist, where current contexts and situations in modern life are critiqued in terms of values and norms that spring from historical and cultural narratives inherent in that local world (in this case, say, the Analects, the Mencius, etc). Thus, in this way, my friend above (Sam) seems to be a &#8220;Bellian&#8221; at least in some instances, given that he frequently critiques the PRC by wielding narratives from the localized ancient culture. </p>
<p>But I think that Bell can be a particularist and a liberal, though I suppose it depends what we mean by &#8220;liberal.&#8221; Appealing the past doesn&#8217;t seem to preclude change, or critique of current traditional mores or practices. In fact, my own way of reading Confucius is pretty strongly particularist, and I see a lot of liberal themes in the Analects to be drawn from and used. </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not sure if this addresses what you are concerned about.</p>
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