Comments on: Another Nail in the Ninja Coffin http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2005/12/another-nail-in-the-ninja-coffin/ The Japan History Group Blog Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:08:31 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Wei-feng http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2005/12/another-nail-in-the-ninja-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-41692 Wei-feng Mon, 01 Jan 2007 14:18:44 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2005/12/another-nail-in-the-ninja-coffin/#comment-41692 Hey. Hmmm.. I'm planning on writing a novel about ninjas.. i learn the art of shinobi, and i'm very interested in ninjas.. now i'm doing a research on them. oh, by the way, its Soke Hatsumi. Sensei is for intructors below 8th Dan. From 8th to Grandmaster is called Shihan, and Grandmaster is Soke. At least thats what i think. Ninjas are indeed always misunderstood and written wrongly. That's probally because ninjas are secretive, and the less people know about them, the better.. i guess they've accomplished their objective. What legends... Hey. Hmmm.. I’m planning on writing a novel about ninjas.. i learn the art of shinobi, and i’m very interested in ninjas.. now i’m doing a research on them. oh, by the way, its Soke Hatsumi. Sensei is for intructors below 8th Dan. From 8th to Grandmaster is called Shihan, and Grandmaster is Soke. At least thats what i think. Ninjas are indeed always misunderstood and written wrongly. That’s probally because ninjas are secretive, and the less people know about them, the better.. i guess they’ve accomplished their objective. What legends…

]]> By: tim jordan http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2005/12/another-nail-in-the-ninja-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-6052 tim jordan Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:09:03 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2005/12/another-nail-in-the-ninja-coffin/#comment-6052 Hi, I stumbled upon your column and was very intregued. My experiance on this matter is from stories told by my Sensei of the Kosho Shorei Ryu. they indeed spoke of yamabushi and warrior monks. Sometimes called warrior-scholars. These monks lived on top of Mt.Kinkai near Kummomoto Castle. Some were indeed Buddhists yet others were kinda just thugs that were offered food and shelter in exchange for work if the Temple was attacked. They were taught a secret family art later to become known as Kosho Shorei. See James Mitose for a very provacative history of this art in the 20th century. These groups may have lasted a little longer by the fact that they were further down south and it took Cato and the boys a little longer to burn their way down there. good luck and see ya tim jordan Hi, I stumbled upon your column and was very intregued. My experiance on this
matter is from stories told by my Sensei of the Kosho Shorei Ryu. they indeed spoke
of yamabushi and warrior monks. Sometimes called warrior-scholars. These monks
lived on top of Mt.Kinkai near Kummomoto Castle. Some were indeed Buddhists yet
others were kinda just thugs that were offered food and shelter in exchange for work
if the Temple was attacked. They were taught a secret family art later to become known
as Kosho Shorei. See James Mitose for a very provacative history of this art in the
20th century. These groups may have lasted a little longer by the fact that they were
further down south and it took Cato and the boys a little longer to burn their way
down there. good luck and see ya tim jordan

]]> By: Roy Berman http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2005/12/another-nail-in-the-ninja-coffin/comment-page-1/#comment-5811 Roy Berman Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:21:06 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2005/12/another-nail-in-the-ninja-coffin/#comment-5811 I have actually read (I can't remember the source right now) that the black costume commonly depicted as the 'official' ninja uniform is actually based on the black clothing worn by stage hands/puppeteers to hide enough of the person to permit the audience the illusion that they were watching events on stage unfold without such intervention. Somehow the costume of the stage hands became linked with that of the protagonist (or is it antagonist?) ninja-perhaps simply because some performers one day decided that it would have made sense for a real ninja to have worn a similar costume. *** I don't have much faith in stories about historical ninja/ninjutsu, but there are various ones out there. A martial artist friend of mine who studied for a while with a (so-called?) ninjutsu teacher told me the version of history he'd heard from his teacher. As in most versions of ninja history, there were two clans based out of the Iga and Kouga regions, but the ninja arts hadn't originated there. According to this story, the original Iga/Kouga ninja had been Tendai-mikkyou(天台密教) monks that fled from Enryakuji (延暦寺) on Mount Hie(比叡山) NE of Kyoto after Oda Nobunaga burned it in 1571. While this story isn't very convincing as a real historical narrative, it does fit well into the legendary history of the ninja, whose stories and powers are often closely related to those of the shugenja/yamabushi (修験者/山伏) or tengu (天狗), and in many stories are said to have learned from these earlier figures. The yamabushi (which were real) were heavily influenced by esoteric Buddhism, and the tengu (legendary bird/man creatures with magical powers) were often said to be transformed or reincarnated monks, or in those stories where the tengu was a natural creature, was itself a practitioner of shugendou like practices. Even if there may not be much to uncover about "real" ninja (although undoubtedly there was a lot of ninja-like espionage and assassination activity), serious study of the history of the ninja legend could uncover a lot of interesting connections. Someone once told me that Hatsumi Sensei actually has ancient ninja scrolls, but if he really does, a historian would have to be mighty persuasive to get a look at them. Of course, as a real ninja master, he knows all the answers. I have actually read (I can’t remember the source right now) that the black costume commonly depicted as the ‘official’ ninja uniform is actually based on the black clothing worn by stage hands/puppeteers to hide enough of the person to permit the audience the illusion that they were watching events on stage unfold without such intervention. Somehow the costume of the stage hands became linked with that of the protagonist (or is it antagonist?) ninja-perhaps simply because some performers one day decided that it would have made sense for a real ninja to have worn a similar costume.

***

I don’t have much faith in stories about historical ninja/ninjutsu, but there are various ones out there. A martial artist friend of mine who studied for a while with a (so-called?) ninjutsu teacher told me the version of history he’d heard from his teacher. As in most versions of ninja history, there were two clans based out of the Iga and Kouga regions, but the ninja arts hadn’t originated there. According to this story, the original Iga/Kouga ninja had been Tendai-mikkyou(天台密教) monks that fled from Enryakuji (延暦寺) on Mount Hie(比叡山) NE of Kyoto after Oda Nobunaga burned it in 1571.

While this story isn’t very convincing as a real historical narrative, it does fit well into the legendary history of the ninja, whose stories and powers are often closely related to those of the shugenja/yamabushi (修験者/山伏) or tengu (天狗), and in many stories are said to have learned from these earlier figures. The yamabushi (which were real) were heavily influenced by esoteric Buddhism, and the tengu (legendary bird/man creatures with magical powers) were often said to be transformed or reincarnated monks, or in those stories where the tengu was a natural creature, was itself a practitioner of shugendou like practices.

Even if there may not be much to uncover about “real” ninja (although undoubtedly there was a lot of ninja-like espionage and assassination activity), serious study of the history of the ninja legend could uncover a lot of interesting connections.

Someone once told me that Hatsumi Sensei actually has ancient ninja scrolls, but if he really does, a historian would have to be mighty persuasive to get a look at them. Of course, as a real ninja master, he knows all the answers.

]]>