Comments on: Homosexuality in Japan: The Meiji Gap http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/ The Japan History Group Blog Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:45:05 -0800 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Prinny http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-7540 Prinny Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:55:24 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/#comment-7540 Japanese man/man sex? Now you're talkin my language! When I decided to study Japanese sexuality, specifically men's sexuality, <i>for fun</i> and my honors thesis (I just have a BA in Anthropology/Asian Studies - sorry if I'm a little green...), I found quite a few texts of interest and have a list of names of people who have done extensive research. Not on hand, but I'll come back and post a truncated version of my bibliography. And heck, I'd even delve into it again if you's like... Anyways, so glad I found this blog! As I'm living in Japan, it's quite informative. My Japanese is still rudimentary.... Douzo yoroshiku! Japanese man/man sex? Now you’re talkin my language!

When I decided to study Japanese sexuality, specifically men’s sexuality, for fun and my honors thesis (I just have a BA in Anthropology/Asian Studies – sorry if I’m a little green…), I found quite a few texts of interest and have a list of names of people who have done extensive research. Not on hand, but I’ll come back and post a truncated version of my bibliography. And heck, I’d even delve into it again if you’s like…

Anyways, so glad I found this blog! As I’m living in Japan, it’s quite informative. My Japanese is still rudimentary…. Douzo yoroshiku!

]]> By: Peter Kornicki http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-7344 Peter Kornicki Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:50:00 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/#comment-7344 I know of no serious study on the subject, but having read a lot of prose and other literature from the Edo period I noticed that the subject virtually disappears from the literary field and the lack of references to the early 19th century in existing studies of the subject indicates to me a lacuna. What that lacuna represents, of course, is another matter, a topic for some brave soul, as you put it, for convincingly demonstrating a negative is going to require pretty exhaustive coverage of a wide range of sources! I know of no serious study on the subject, but having read a lot of prose and other literature from the Edo period I noticed that the subject virtually disappears from the literary field and the lack of references to the early 19th century in existing studies of the subject indicates to me a lacuna. What that lacuna represents, of course, is another matter, a topic for some brave soul, as you put it, for convincingly demonstrating a negative is going to require pretty exhaustive coverage of a wide range of sources!

]]> By: Jonathan Dresner http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-7331 Jonathan Dresner Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:08:52 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/#comment-7331 I think the author is arguing just that, actually, defining homosexuality as a modernistic and exclusive identity. I've seen similar arguments about non-exclusive same-sex relationships applied to 19c US, early modern Europe, etc, usually as part of an attempt to argue that there is no "tradition" of homosexuality to justify the public acceptance of homosexuality in the present. Has anyone done a serious study of the Tokugawa trajectory you describe -- decreasing references over time -- or is this going to have to be the next project for some brave soul? I think the author is arguing just that, actually, defining homosexuality as a modernistic and exclusive identity. I’ve seen similar arguments about non-exclusive same-sex relationships applied to 19c US, early modern Europe, etc, usually as part of an attempt to argue that there is no “tradition” of homosexuality to justify the public acceptance of homosexuality in the present.

Has anyone done a serious study of the Tokugawa trajectory you describe — decreasing references over time — or is this going to have to be the next project for some brave soul?

]]> By: Peter Kornicki http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-7327 Peter Kornicki Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:21:33 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2006/02/homosexuality-in-japan-the-meiji-gap/#comment-7327 Surely the problem is not confined to the Meiji period, in the sense that most of the literary and other evidence cited for the Tokugawa period by Japanese and Western scholars relates to the first half of the period. It is much rarer, in literary and other sources, to find reference to danshoku in the first half of the nineteenth century. SO perhaps the problem is rather one of the fate of male-male sexuality in the 19th century, rather than of the Meiji period. Incidentally, I don't but the argument in the translated excerpt that "participating in such acts did not designate a specific type of person and so these records cannot be read as part of the history of ‘gay’ or ‘homosexual’ men": this smacks of Fukuzawa Yukichi's attempts to rewrite the history of Japan by pretending that banks, exhibitions, post and other social institutions he encountered in the West did not exist in Japan because they did not conform to Western models. Can the author of the translated piece seriously be suggesting that the history of Japanese homosexuality starts in the Meiji period? Surely the problem is not confined to the Meiji period, in the sense that most of the literary and other evidence cited for the Tokugawa period by Japanese and Western scholars relates to the first half of the period. It is much rarer, in literary and other sources, to find reference to danshoku in the first half of the nineteenth century. SO perhaps the problem is rather one of the fate of male-male sexuality in the 19th century, rather than of the Meiji period. Incidentally, I don’t but the argument in the translated excerpt that “participating in such acts did not designate a specific type of person and so these records cannot be read as part of the history of ‘gay’ or ‘homosexual’ men”: this smacks of Fukuzawa Yukichi’s attempts to rewrite the history of Japan by pretending that banks, exhibitions, post and other social institutions he encountered in the West did not exist in Japan because they did not conform to Western models. Can the author of the translated piece seriously be suggesting that the history of Japanese homosexuality starts in the Meiji period?

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