Comments on: Dutch Futurists http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2009/01/dutch-futurists/ The Japan History Group Blog Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:45:05 -0800 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Jonathan Dresner http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2009/01/dutch-futurists/comment-page-1/#comment-194318 Jonathan Dresner Mon, 13 Apr 2009 02:50:33 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/?p=528#comment-194318 Thanks very much, Kai. Thanks very much, Kai.

]]> By: Kai Zimmermann http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2009/01/dutch-futurists/comment-page-1/#comment-194290 Kai Zimmermann Sun, 12 Apr 2009 16:43:47 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/?p=528#comment-194290 Concerning the text - it talks about the "state wagon" of the taikosama, which, as the text further explains, is traditionally drawn by two oxen. This clearly refutes the theory that the German (not Dutch) speaking author was not aware of this tradition. The text on this page makes not mention of human powered vehicles, nor of ones being pushed from behind; one may presume that the illustrator heard aboud the use of palanquins and conflated this with the wheeled vehicle described. Concerning the text – it talks about the “state wagon” of the taikosama, which, as the text further explains, is traditionally drawn by two oxen. This clearly refutes the theory that the German (not Dutch) speaking author was not aware of this tradition. The text on this page makes not mention of human powered vehicles, nor of ones being pushed from behind; one may presume that the illustrator heard aboud the use of palanquins and conflated this with the wheeled vehicle described.

]]> By: Jonathan Dresner http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2009/01/dutch-futurists/comment-page-1/#comment-188566 Jonathan Dresner Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:29:30 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/?p=528#comment-188566 As noted above, Japan did use some wheeled vehicles for elites, but never used chariots, nor did they use rear-push chairs on wheels. As noted above, Japan did use some wheeled vehicles for elites, but never used chariots, nor did they use rear-push chairs on wheels.

]]> By: Bill http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2009/01/dutch-futurists/comment-page-1/#comment-188558 Bill Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:39:14 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/?p=528#comment-188558 Japan borrowed a lot of cultural and technical ideas from China. It probably preserved Tang Dynasty traditions which was totally destroyed in China. Therefore, I won't be surprised at all if Japan got all the Chinese transportation implements in Tang Dynasty. Wheeled vehicle for people and goods transportation were certainly used in China during the Tang Dynasty. Actually, records shown that Huangdi, the first tribal warlord recognized by other warlords as the leader of warlords used horse draw carriages in his battles to defeat anyone not submitting to his rule - notably those "wild" men from the south. And that's at least a thousand years before Tang Dynasty. Japan borrowed a lot of cultural and technical ideas from China. It probably preserved Tang Dynasty traditions which was totally destroyed in China. Therefore, I won’t be surprised at all if Japan got all the Chinese transportation implements in Tang Dynasty. Wheeled vehicle for people and goods transportation were certainly used in China during the Tang Dynasty. Actually, records shown that Huangdi, the first tribal warlord recognized by other warlords as the leader of warlords used horse draw carriages in his battles to defeat anyone not submitting to his rule – notably those “wild” men from the south. And that’s at least a thousand years before Tang Dynasty.

]]> By: Aki http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2009/01/dutch-futurists/comment-page-1/#comment-185166 Aki Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:05:06 +0000 http://www.froginawell.net/japan/?p=528#comment-185166 Wheeled carts can be seen in many illustrations published or drawn in the Edo period. <i><a href="http://japanesestudies.arts.kuleuven.be/eajrs/2006_conference/kidai_shoran" rel="nofollow">Kidai Shoran</a></i> (煕代勝覧): http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/007/710/90/N000/000/000/118448235716216406529.jpg http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/007/710/90/N000/000/000/118447923288516225064.jpg <i>Edo Meisho Zue</i> (江戸名所図会): http://www4.airnet.ne.jp/sakura/photo08/daihachi.gif <i>Edo Meisho Hyakkei</i> (江戸名所百景) by Hiroshige: http://www4.airnet.ne.jp/sakura/photo11/niguruma.jpg Wheeled carts can be seen in many illustrations published or drawn in the Edo period.

Kidai Shoran (煕代勝覧):
http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/007/710/90/N000/000/000/118448235716216406529.jpg
http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/007/710/90/N000/000/000/118447923288516225064.jpg

Edo Meisho Zue (江戸名所図会):
http://www4.airnet.ne.jp/sakura/photo08/daihachi.gif

Edo Meisho Hyakkei (江戸名所百景) by Hiroshige:
http://www4.airnet.ne.jp/sakura/photo11/niguruma.jpg

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